Salary/Cost of Living in Europe

[nikujaga]

I've been offered a job in Western Europe. I don't want to say where for fear of outing myself.

I'm a single American elementary teacher in my late 20s. I've taught at an international school in the Middle East for the past two years using the Common Core (American) curriculum.

The new school caters to mostly local kids. It's PYP. I think it would be a good career move... I hear so many good things about PYP and I know a lot of schools are looking for experienced PYP teachers.

I'm working at a third tier school in the ME now and easily saving half my salary. When I accepted the interview with this new school, I was expecting the salary to be low, but it's even lower than I expected.

Is 20000 euros without accommodation enough to live on? Obviously this varies country by country. But in general, for the more expensive countries in mainland Europe, what do you think? I don't have any debts back home. If I accepted the job, it would be for the experience, both personally and professionally.

What do other schools that hire relatively inexperienced teachers pay?

For what it's worth, it's a dream location. Thanks for your input.

[Cailin]

Is this your salary before or after tax? It seems low to me. It really depends on location. Western Europe includes capitals and smaller cities. Are you willing to share accomodation? I doubt you'd be able to afford a single place on that salaryeven with a long commute to work. . Best bet would be to ask to be put in contact with a current teacher at the school. Alternatively, google 'cost of living in XXX. There are websites that will give you some idea of costs of appartment etc.

[wrldtrvlr123]

Is that net at least? If you have to pay taxes out of that, then I would think it's a deal breaker (IMHO). Even at net salary, you will likely be paying at least half of that every month in rent/utilities. So, out of the other half would come groceries, commuting costs etc. It could be done but with no savings and precious little travel (unless you are a hostel type person). Maybe you could do it cheaper depending on country, area etc but you would really need to do your research first.

[nikkor]

Of course the location of your school makes a difference, but how much? After three Intl' schools, I've come to the realization that I don't care where I'm located, and I'm not willing to make a professional sacrifice to live in a more desirable location. Italy is great, but if your school is horrible and you are hemorrhaging money just to live there, you are not going to enjoy it for long.

Here are my priorities:
1. I like my school and my job
2. The environment won't kill me
3. Savings potential is high
4. My housing is comfortable, commute to work is short
5. Food and public services are sufficient

In reality, during the week all I do is go to work, go home, work out or go out to a bar or restaurant with friends. This can be done in most locations around the world. If you love Europe, spend your vacations there. You'll enjoy it even more because you'll be able to experience some of the best parts.

For now, do your best in the ME or Asia, save your millions, and then take a job in a spot where you can savor la dolce vita.

[hallier]

Even if that is a net figure, it seems very low.

Of course, location does matter.

However, anywhere in Western Europe is going to be a stretch on 20k.

It would be tough to be in the dream location, but be in such dire straits financially that you can not really afford to take advantage of it.

I have friends who have done a 5 year stretch in a high paying, but less desirable, location - and then saved heaps. Then , for their next job, they have done a 2-3 stretch in the dream location. Now, they have headed back to the higher paying regions.

Anyway, good luck with your decision.

[Cheery Littlebottom]

That is woeful, truly woeful. You need to very quickly get some hard information. Are you sharing a accommodation? Is there some subsidised arrangement? What other benefits are there?
20,000 Euro is not even 27,000USD. Imagine trying to live in NY on that!
In my less than humble opinion, they're taking the piss. You'd be better off going to a school where you can save, then having 8 weeks summer holiday seeing Europe.

[Cheery Littlebottom]

Further to my previous petulant outburst, you may want to have a look at this.

http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/education/ ... l-table-en

It is 3 years out of date but it gives you a handle on things.

[dover2013]

I agree with cheery. They are taking the piss. You are not a university student on a scholarship giving you some money to live on. You are a professional and, to boot, one being hired from overseas because you have something to offer that cannot be found locally. You can earn more than that in the "european" nations in the southern cone of South America where you will live like a king and still have enough money to do a luxury backpack tour of Europe all summer long.

Money isn't everything - in fact it's not important at all. But you can earn more, pay less tax and get benefits like housing and flights in cheaper, more rewarding, places. The reality is though that teachers are lining up to live in the "cultural hotspots" of Europe and accepting crap salaries. Some international schools in Europe even pay significantly less than the state pays to local teachers. Mugs game!

[Yantantether]

To add further perspective, newly qualified teachers in the UK earn 23000 - 27000(inner London) pounds (27000-33000 euros)p.a. before tax in government schools. Tax is around 20-25%

Personally, I wouldn't touch that with a shitty stick.

[Bij Bam]

A continental Western European native here.

If that's a netto salary, it's a fairly normal salary for a regular local primary teacher. And as long as the school is located in an area where housing is affordable (say up to 600, 700 euros a month for a one bedroom apartment) and you don't have any extremely expensive hobbies or tastes (like daily caviar and champagne), you'll be fine. You wouldn't even have to share your apartment.

What you can't do so easily on such a salary is travelling extensively to all the corners of the world, and nor are you likely to end up with huge savings. Travelling around Europe for a month or so in the summer (the way most people take vacations) is certainly possible on a salary like that. Just stay out of the 5 star hotels ;-)

So it's up to you. If you value the experience and would like to be located in Europe (and Europe is small, really - everything is within a few hours reach), then you might certainly want to consider this position.

If earning a lot of money is important to you, then you might want to look further instead.

And if that 20,000 is a bruto salary, then you might indeed want to reconsider. 30% taxes is fairly normal in Western Europe...

[wrldtrvlr123]

Guess the OP got lost or intimidated. Too bad. Just noticed the name. Nikujaga. Mmmm. Good eating in Tokyo.

[nikujaga]

Thank you, everyone who responded. You've given me some things to think about. As many have pointed out, I could work somewhere else for better pay and just visit Europe in the summer. In fact, that's what I did last year. I visited friends in Europe for 5 weeks and had a great time. But as we all know, visiting somewhere and living there are two very different things.

I guess I'm really asking a different question. Is it better to be (relatively) wealthy in China or the Middle East, middle class in the US, or poor in Europe? Maybe it would be best to alternate between these options.

Regarding my name, I taught ESL in Japan before becoming a certified teacher. I loved it there and I would go back in a heartbeat if I could get a job at an international school.

Anyway, I'm still undecided on whether to take the position. It's getting pretty late in the hiring season... although this is around the time of year I got hired for my current job. Is it just because I'm in elementary education? My relative lack of experience? I've probably applied to 100 schools over the last 6 months and heard back from very few. I'm sure PYP experience would be good for my resume.

[twimih]

Here's my perspective. I've been relatively wealthy in the Middle East, middle class in the US, and poor in Europe. The happiest time was the poor in Europe time. I was young, and that's the best time to do it.

As you get older you need more savings for things like kids, retirement, and other big, expensive, unexpected events. When you have decades ahead of you, you can afford a few lean years. Not so when you're older. I disagree with the idea of saving first and then live somewhere expensive. The older I get, the more important those savings become, and they're not for frivolous things.

My advice is to take the job in Europe, know you probably won't save anything, enjoy life there, and get that PYP experience. After a few years you can move on to a better school, a better income and savings potential, and other, different experiences.

[grdwdgrrrl]

twimih wrote:
> Here's my perspective. I've been relatively wealthy in the Middle East,
> middle class in the US, and poor in Europe. The happiest time was the poor
> in Europe time. I was young, and that's the best time to do it.
>
> As you get older you need more savings for things like kids, retirement,
> and other big, expensive, unexpected events. When you have decades ahead of
> you, you can afford a few lean years. Not so when you're older. I disagree
> with the idea of saving first and then live somewhere expensive. The older
> I get, the more important those savings become, and they're not for
> frivolous things.
>
> My advice is to take the job in Europe, know you probably won't save
> anything, enjoy life there, and get that PYP experience. After a few years
> you can move on to a better school, a better income and savings potential,
> and other, different experiences.

That is THE best advice. This is coming from someone who was a frivolous traveller in my youth and then the responsibility of family slammed into me and now it's all about savings and taking care of them. I would do it again and recommend it to everyone. So, have fun and enjoy life and living while you're young. Get your experience and then there you go.

[durianfan]

Cheery Littlebottom wrote:
> Further to my previous petulant outburst, you may want to have a look at
> this.
>
> http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/education/ ... l-table-en
>
> It is 3 years out of date but it gives you a handle on things.


Cheery, that website is completely incorrect. The salary listed for Australia is twice that, and the salaries listed for the US and England are quite low as well. I've no idea where the website is getting its information, but it's wrong.