Teaching Vietnam
Teaching Vietnam
Any tips on which schools to consider in Ho Chi Minh? Anyone have thoughts on Vietnam Australian School?
BIS (British) SSIS (American) and ISHCMC (All through IB) were considered the best.
ISHCMC has recently been bought by Cognita, so we wait with bated breath to see what they'll do with it . . .
AIS (Australian - merged recently with ACG), ABC (British) and maybe Saigon Pearl seemed ok.
AIS (American) RISS (British) and Viet Australian (Aussie?) are reputed to be avoided at all costs.
A bunch of others have sprung up - not sure where they'd fit in.
ISHCMC has recently been bought by Cognita, so we wait with bated breath to see what they'll do with it . . .
AIS (Australian - merged recently with ACG), ABC (British) and maybe Saigon Pearl seemed ok.
AIS (American) RISS (British) and Viet Australian (Aussie?) are reputed to be avoided at all costs.
A bunch of others have sprung up - not sure where they'd fit in.
Vietnam Aust School
Many thanks for your response ...did have that feeling about this place! Difficult to get any real info when I did a search.
VAS
I have recently accepted a position at VAS starting in January 2014. There isn't much I can find about the school itself. Other than what has already been posted here, is there anything I should prepare myself for or any tips you can give? Cheers!
Response
Evaluation type posts are not permitted on this forum. However, infrastructure and mainly capital projects such as buildings, etc, are easy. They are nothing more than the equivalent of new paint on old wood/brick/concrete. It takes noting but coin to make that kind of improvement. You will find MANY train wreck/bottom tier ISs that have very nice facilities.
AIS is an IB school that offer Diploma, however regional agencies such as WASC either accredit a whole IS or they dont (primary exception when schools within an IS are separated from one another). As such AIS is fill accredited for K-12 education.
That doesnt mean a whole lot, many ISs that are third tier, and bottom third tier are accredited (there are also many bottom tier and better ISs that arent accredited)
AIS is an IB school that offer Diploma, however regional agencies such as WASC either accredit a whole IS or they dont (primary exception when schools within an IS are separated from one another). As such AIS is fill accredited for K-12 education.
That doesnt mean a whole lot, many ISs that are third tier, and bottom third tier are accredited (there are also many bottom tier and better ISs that arent accredited)
Re: Updates on American International School Vietnam (AIS)
@ PsyGuy: Thanks for your quick response.
I understand that evaluation posts are not permitted, so may I ask for updated information on the followings ?
1) Whether AIS is willing to take on teachers without teaching experience? If yes, does AIS actually have any regular and proper training for junior or insufficiently experienced teachers ? Sorry if I do not use proper English
2) If the accreditation does not add 'true quality value', what to look for in a 'qualified' international school ? Please advise!
3) Has AIS improved on its recruitment as compared to the 2013 situation ?
4) Is there any on-going concern about quality control/ school management or administration of AIS ?
5) For primary schools, I'm confused by PsyGuy's post that it is considered separate school. What does that mean? Does primary school have to follow the same standard as that applied to the high school in respect of quality control, IB curriculum, etc. ?
BTW, I very much wish to hear anyone who has 'real experience' at AIS for an insight of this school. Many thanks!
I understand that evaluation posts are not permitted, so may I ask for updated information on the followings ?
1) Whether AIS is willing to take on teachers without teaching experience? If yes, does AIS actually have any regular and proper training for junior or insufficiently experienced teachers ? Sorry if I do not use proper English
2) If the accreditation does not add 'true quality value', what to look for in a 'qualified' international school ? Please advise!
3) Has AIS improved on its recruitment as compared to the 2013 situation ?
4) Is there any on-going concern about quality control/ school management or administration of AIS ?
5) For primary schools, I'm confused by PsyGuy's post that it is considered separate school. What does that mean? Does primary school have to follow the same standard as that applied to the high school in respect of quality control, IB curriculum, etc. ?
BTW, I very much wish to hear anyone who has 'real experience' at AIS for an insight of this school. Many thanks!
Last edited by anhntl on Wed Dec 02, 2015 5:03 am, edited 6 times in total.
Reply
@anhntl
The standard bar to entry for IE is two years post certification, however it does happen that ISs most lower tier, sometimes upper tier will hire an IT with less. Usually its an issue of right place, right time.
Within IE there are "intern" class ITs these are ITs without the two years standard teaching experience (however they are fully certified). ISs in general do not have the resources to mentor new ITs. These are typically fee paying ISs and parents are not paying to have their children used as a testing ground for a new IT. In the ISs that do have an intern program its typically one whole school intern.
There are bottom tier ISs that will hire unqualified or newly qualified ITs, typically such experiences are not conducive to an ITs growth, some survive, some dont.
Accreditation adds value, it just doesnt add the value that many parents, teachers, etc believe it adds. Accreditation is not a seal of approval or endorsement of a "good" IS. Accreditation (specifically WASC, etc.) is focused on the curriculum objectives and standards, are they being met or arent they. You an have an IS that misrepresents its contract,is always late and shorting its ITs, has oppressive leadership, is for profit, provides minimal resources, overworks its ITs, all sorts of negatives that ITs value and are interested in and concerned about, that have absolutely zero impact or influence on accreditation.
What do you want to look for in a good IS in brief, you do want accreditation. Accreditation means the academic road map for the IS has been evaluated and determined that the ISs pathway to learning outcomes gets to the agreed upon (standard) destination. Without a goal (or external determination what those goals are) then you end up with the same problem that plagues many unorganized ELL programs. Students show up, pay their money, spend time in classrooms and a teachers does the monkey dance, and maybe after a long time they learn something, and many times they dont.
You can distill all the attributes and qualities of a successful IS down to one descriptor, and that is Stability. Stable ISs have been doing what they have been doing for a prolonged period of time successfully. They have stable policies (policies that dont change on a whim, or are always reactionary). The learning environment is stable in that their are sufficient resources for students to complete their learning objectives. The infrastructure and financial conditions of the IS are stable. They are in the 90% range of their capacity, enjoy a strong enough reputation that their enrollment and thus endowment isnt going to fluctuate widely, and as a result they can provide the compensation they agreed too and on time without having to "short" their staff. As such ITs and other staff are content enough that turnover is low.
Your English is fine
Recruitment strategy hasnt changed, anything more than that is going to move into the realm of evaluation. Vietnam is not at the top of many ITs wish list of desirable regions, recruiters need to be more creative with spinning and selling their IS and the region than recruiters in regions like Japan, France, Italy, Switzerland, etc. Recruiters dont have to "sell" ITs in those type of regions, the regions sell themselves. Its the hardship regions in Asia, the ME, etc. that need the spinning. This is why you find admin/admin cheerleaders trying to hype locations such as Angola. You dont see Tokyo, or Rome, or Paris or Geneva making sales pitches on the forum for those locations.
Commenting on "issues" in regards to leadership and QA would be evaluative and inappropriate for this forum ;)
My apologies, I did not mean "primary schools" as in the primary/elementary section or division of an IS. My intention was that the main exception to this (whole school accreditation) is when an IS (or chain IS) is comprised of and includes multiple campuses that are physically distinct from one another. An IS may have a secondary campus in one location that offers a NC program, a separate campus for its IB DIP program and 2 separate primary campuses (one for EC and one for years 1-6). Accreditation (depending how the IS is organized) may not include all of those campuses. In this scenario the DIP program would be authorized by the IB, and the IS may implement IB in its primary (1-6) program that might look and act like a PYP program but not actually be an authorized PYP program. The secondary program may offer a British style education, but they are only an authorized exam center for IGCSE and arent an Ofsted inspected BSO.
Accreditation is less important in primary and lower secondary when a school leaving qualification is not part of the program. It is mainly a marketing factor towards parents, but absent a qualification or a regulatory requirement any IS choosing to call themselves one can create an issue a transcript and even a certificate of completion, they are nothing more than ink and paper, and they are worth whatever someone (parents) are willing to pay for them. What education and learning they represent is highly contentious.
From one perspective quality is a (sole) matter of reputation. Genovia IS enjoys a perception of quality education because it has established an accepted reputation of success that has consensus within the IE community (this is the entire premise that CIS is based on).
The standard bar to entry for IE is two years post certification, however it does happen that ISs most lower tier, sometimes upper tier will hire an IT with less. Usually its an issue of right place, right time.
Within IE there are "intern" class ITs these are ITs without the two years standard teaching experience (however they are fully certified). ISs in general do not have the resources to mentor new ITs. These are typically fee paying ISs and parents are not paying to have their children used as a testing ground for a new IT. In the ISs that do have an intern program its typically one whole school intern.
There are bottom tier ISs that will hire unqualified or newly qualified ITs, typically such experiences are not conducive to an ITs growth, some survive, some dont.
Accreditation adds value, it just doesnt add the value that many parents, teachers, etc believe it adds. Accreditation is not a seal of approval or endorsement of a "good" IS. Accreditation (specifically WASC, etc.) is focused on the curriculum objectives and standards, are they being met or arent they. You an have an IS that misrepresents its contract,is always late and shorting its ITs, has oppressive leadership, is for profit, provides minimal resources, overworks its ITs, all sorts of negatives that ITs value and are interested in and concerned about, that have absolutely zero impact or influence on accreditation.
What do you want to look for in a good IS in brief, you do want accreditation. Accreditation means the academic road map for the IS has been evaluated and determined that the ISs pathway to learning outcomes gets to the agreed upon (standard) destination. Without a goal (or external determination what those goals are) then you end up with the same problem that plagues many unorganized ELL programs. Students show up, pay their money, spend time in classrooms and a teachers does the monkey dance, and maybe after a long time they learn something, and many times they dont.
You can distill all the attributes and qualities of a successful IS down to one descriptor, and that is Stability. Stable ISs have been doing what they have been doing for a prolonged period of time successfully. They have stable policies (policies that dont change on a whim, or are always reactionary). The learning environment is stable in that their are sufficient resources for students to complete their learning objectives. The infrastructure and financial conditions of the IS are stable. They are in the 90% range of their capacity, enjoy a strong enough reputation that their enrollment and thus endowment isnt going to fluctuate widely, and as a result they can provide the compensation they agreed too and on time without having to "short" their staff. As such ITs and other staff are content enough that turnover is low.
Your English is fine
Recruitment strategy hasnt changed, anything more than that is going to move into the realm of evaluation. Vietnam is not at the top of many ITs wish list of desirable regions, recruiters need to be more creative with spinning and selling their IS and the region than recruiters in regions like Japan, France, Italy, Switzerland, etc. Recruiters dont have to "sell" ITs in those type of regions, the regions sell themselves. Its the hardship regions in Asia, the ME, etc. that need the spinning. This is why you find admin/admin cheerleaders trying to hype locations such as Angola. You dont see Tokyo, or Rome, or Paris or Geneva making sales pitches on the forum for those locations.
Commenting on "issues" in regards to leadership and QA would be evaluative and inappropriate for this forum ;)
My apologies, I did not mean "primary schools" as in the primary/elementary section or division of an IS. My intention was that the main exception to this (whole school accreditation) is when an IS (or chain IS) is comprised of and includes multiple campuses that are physically distinct from one another. An IS may have a secondary campus in one location that offers a NC program, a separate campus for its IB DIP program and 2 separate primary campuses (one for EC and one for years 1-6). Accreditation (depending how the IS is organized) may not include all of those campuses. In this scenario the DIP program would be authorized by the IB, and the IS may implement IB in its primary (1-6) program that might look and act like a PYP program but not actually be an authorized PYP program. The secondary program may offer a British style education, but they are only an authorized exam center for IGCSE and arent an Ofsted inspected BSO.
Accreditation is less important in primary and lower secondary when a school leaving qualification is not part of the program. It is mainly a marketing factor towards parents, but absent a qualification or a regulatory requirement any IS choosing to call themselves one can create an issue a transcript and even a certificate of completion, they are nothing more than ink and paper, and they are worth whatever someone (parents) are willing to pay for them. What education and learning they represent is highly contentious.
From one perspective quality is a (sole) matter of reputation. Genovia IS enjoys a perception of quality education because it has established an accepted reputation of success that has consensus within the IE community (this is the entire premise that CIS is based on).
Re: Teaching Vietnam
You want to find a good school in Hoi An, Vietnam with excellent teachers, you can refer here:
http://cloversfarmschool.com/
International School Hoi An, Vietnam
http://cloversfarmschool.com/
International School Hoi An, Vietnam
-
wrldtrvlr123
- Posts: 1173
- Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:59 am
- Location: Japan
Re: Teaching Vietnam
anvector wrote:
> You want to find a good school in Hoi An, Vietnam with excellent teachers,
> you can refer here:
> http://cloversfarmschool.com/
> International School Hoi An, Vietnam
====================
Yes. because good int'l schools frequently advertise on free forums where schools are not supposed to be named and commercial/spam posts are not allowed.
> You want to find a good school in Hoi An, Vietnam with excellent teachers,
> you can refer here:
> http://cloversfarmschool.com/
> International School Hoi An, Vietnam
====================
Yes. because good int'l schools frequently advertise on free forums where schools are not supposed to be named and commercial/spam posts are not allowed.
Moderation
Concur with @WT123