1st Grade Opening - Korea
Having a Christian school doesn’t go against open mindedness. I have absolutely no objection at all to the idea of a school that affiliates itself with a religion, and I recognize the good work done by many religion-affiliated schools. I even have no objection to a school saying something along the lines of, “We are a Christian school and employees are required to uphold the Christian based philosophy and values of the schoolâ€
Inman, I do agree, it does make people who are qualified, but aren't Christian, not able to acquire a job there, unless they are dishonest.
I am not IB trained and most likely will never be (out of the classroom now), but I have 10 yrs of early childhood teaching experience and many schools would not look at me either because they want the IB trained staff already, kinda the same thing.
In life, unfortunately, many things are not all inclusive of everyone, which would be great if it was.
As a Christian I will say, it is nice to work in an environment where everyone has the same foundation in life. It is really the most pleasant environment I have been in, in a long time, although not perfect (nothing is).
All my intentions were to give qualified people who would be interested in a Christian IB school a heads up as I know how it feels when you're in the job market. Unfortunately, you try to do something nice and people pick it apart to where you feel it's not worth it.
I am not IB trained and most likely will never be (out of the classroom now), but I have 10 yrs of early childhood teaching experience and many schools would not look at me either because they want the IB trained staff already, kinda the same thing.
In life, unfortunately, many things are not all inclusive of everyone, which would be great if it was.
As a Christian I will say, it is nice to work in an environment where everyone has the same foundation in life. It is really the most pleasant environment I have been in, in a long time, although not perfect (nothing is).
All my intentions were to give qualified people who would be interested in a Christian IB school a heads up as I know how it feels when you're in the job market. Unfortunately, you try to do something nice and people pick it apart to where you feel it's not worth it.
I went to an IB conference earlier this year at a Christian IB school. My first breakout session was cancelled so I went to a TOK workshop instead, as I also teach this subject.The facilitator, as well as teaching TOK at the school, teaches bible studies. I was concerned about this but let it go.
A little into the session however he informed the group that the traditional TOK diagram, which has the Knower at its centre was flawed, God, in his opinion should be at the centre of learning. That was too much for me. Everyone is entitled to their own views but the IB has the learner at the centre of all four programmes (the Knower in it's TOK subject), if that is something you cannot accept I told him, then he really is teaching in the wrong educational system.
Religious belief systems can drive a school's ethos and values but I think they should not be in conflict with the values of the education system, which they have chosen to adopt and follow.
A little into the session however he informed the group that the traditional TOK diagram, which has the Knower at its centre was flawed, God, in his opinion should be at the centre of learning. That was too much for me. Everyone is entitled to their own views but the IB has the learner at the centre of all four programmes (the Knower in it's TOK subject), if that is something you cannot accept I told him, then he really is teaching in the wrong educational system.
Religious belief systems can drive a school's ethos and values but I think they should not be in conflict with the values of the education system, which they have chosen to adopt and follow.
Personally, I don't see how choosing applicants according to relevant qualifications and training is the same as discriminating against applicants based upon their religion.
micki0624, You mentioned that you're out of the classroom now, which makes you in admin at the school, right? Out of curiosity, does a persons status within the church link with their ability to gain higher status within the school?
micki0624, You mentioned that you're out of the classroom now, which makes you in admin at the school, right? Out of curiosity, does a persons status within the church link with their ability to gain higher status within the school?
-
shadowjack
- Posts: 2140
- Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:49 am
I guess, going by those standards, that you hate the fact you can't apply there because you are not a Christian ranks right up there that you hate the fact you can't apply there because you are not certified in Ontario, BC, Alberta, the UK, etc etc etc...
We all know that there are schools which we simply don't have the qualifications to work at. For instance, if I see an ad for a position at a school which wants British teaching certification, I hate the fact that I can't apply because I'm not going to get a look due to the fact I am not certified in the UK.
If the school is up front about it and you don't qualify, then don't apply. There are many schools like this around the world. What I really hate, though, are the schools that have the hidden qualifications, and when you apply you are just politely declined because you are not (a) married; (b) part of a teaching couple; (c) white; (d) old enough; (d) young enough; (e) tall enough; (f) short enough; (g) Your pet peeve here. There are schools like that and they drive me mad!
We all know that there are schools which we simply don't have the qualifications to work at. For instance, if I see an ad for a position at a school which wants British teaching certification, I hate the fact that I can't apply because I'm not going to get a look due to the fact I am not certified in the UK.
If the school is up front about it and you don't qualify, then don't apply. There are many schools like this around the world. What I really hate, though, are the schools that have the hidden qualifications, and when you apply you are just politely declined because you are not (a) married; (b) part of a teaching couple; (c) white; (d) old enough; (d) young enough; (e) tall enough; (f) short enough; (g) Your pet peeve here. There are schools like that and they drive me mad!
-
jbiersteker
- Posts: 121
- Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:38 am
After all our rejections at IB-schools at Cambridge (I'm AP-trained), I don't know how people can possibly complain that they can't get hired at a Christian school.
In regards to putting the learner at the center of learning, that is definitely a controversial aspect to the IB-philosophy (and yes, it is very much a philosophy/worldview) and worthy of some well thought-out debate.
Thanks!!
In regards to putting the learner at the center of learning, that is definitely a controversial aspect to the IB-philosophy (and yes, it is very much a philosophy/worldview) and worthy of some well thought-out debate.
Thanks!!
I wouldn't compare a school not hiring teachers without IB experience to a school only hiring Christians. You can gain IB experience at other schools and apply when you have the required experience. If you aren't a Christian you never have a shot.
Having said that, at least the school is up front and as a private school they have a right to set their requirements. While it might be frustrating to be rejected based on lack of IB experience, the comparison between the two policies is comparing apples to oranges and avoids addressing the actual issue of religion-based hiring at an IB school.
Having said that, at least the school is up front and as a private school they have a right to set their requirements. While it might be frustrating to be rejected based on lack of IB experience, the comparison between the two policies is comparing apples to oranges and avoids addressing the actual issue of religion-based hiring at an IB school.
-
jbiersteker
- Posts: 121
- Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:38 am
Actually I don't think it is much different (if I can play Devil's advocate).
I can [b]choose[/b] to go get IB-trained, I can [b]choose[/b] to become a Christian. I am under no obligation, particularly if I don't agree with the underlying assumptions of either. Both come with consequences however, and to pretend that they don't smacks of stubborness or naivety.
Thanks!!
I can [b]choose[/b] to go get IB-trained, I can [b]choose[/b] to become a Christian. I am under no obligation, particularly if I don't agree with the underlying assumptions of either. Both come with consequences however, and to pretend that they don't smacks of stubborness or naivety.
Thanks!!
Choosing to become IB trained doesn't entail a personal choice like religion. True, there are many parts of IB that one might consider "indoctrination" but you're still comparing apples to oranges. The choice to become IB trained is not the same as the choice to become a Christian. True, they are both a choice, but they are not the same kind of choice. They should not be compared in this way.
I can be a firm believer in the American education system and become IB trained without relinquishing my beliefs about the American education system. If I am a Muslim, I cannot become a Christian without relinquishing my beliefs about Islam.
I can be a firm believer in the American education system and become IB trained without relinquishing my beliefs about the American education system. If I am a Muslim, I cannot become a Christian without relinquishing my beliefs about Islam.
-
jbiersteker
- Posts: 121
- Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:38 am
How many types of choices are there? A choice is a choice whether I'm trying to decide what to order at McDonalds or I'm trying to decide what is the best method of educating a child. While some have different consequences/ramifications, there is still the element of weighing the pros/cons and moving forward with the corresponding consequences whether we weigh that for personal gain, what's best for the community, etc..
You can certainly relinquish your beliefs in the American education system when becoming IB trained. If the system is not "student-centered" you will have to make a choice on whether you move ahead or reject it outright. Most of us will probably use a hybrid of different systems that work given the circumstances of where and who we teach.
I think the hard part of this argument is that we all will make choices and have to to move forward in life. Its the consequences that most of us get hung up on and the part that most of us don't want to deal with. If I am Muslim and want to work in a Christian school I will have to make choices (and each comes with consequences):
a. don't work there
b. lie about my religious beliefs
c. convert
While none of these choices are ideal, who said life had to be perfect?
Thanks!!
You can certainly relinquish your beliefs in the American education system when becoming IB trained. If the system is not "student-centered" you will have to make a choice on whether you move ahead or reject it outright. Most of us will probably use a hybrid of different systems that work given the circumstances of where and who we teach.
I think the hard part of this argument is that we all will make choices and have to to move forward in life. Its the consequences that most of us get hung up on and the part that most of us don't want to deal with. If I am Muslim and want to work in a Christian school I will have to make choices (and each comes with consequences):
a. don't work there
b. lie about my religious beliefs
c. convert
While none of these choices are ideal, who said life had to be perfect?
Thanks!!
There are different types of choices in life. Just because we use the same word "choice" to describe them doesn't mean they can be compared. Belief in a school system is not the same as belief in a god. I don't have to change any beliefs I have in my personal life to get IB experience.
I appreciate hearing other perspectives on this, but as I said before, by making this comparison we are avoiding dealing with the actual issue. People seem to be pointing out that we don't have to examine an IB school hiring only Christians because other IB schools hire only IB experienced educators.
While others might disagree -- I truly believe this is a fallacious comparison and we need to separate the two issues and not lump them together as the same "choice".
I appreciate hearing other perspectives on this, but as I said before, by making this comparison we are avoiding dealing with the actual issue. People seem to be pointing out that we don't have to examine an IB school hiring only Christians because other IB schools hire only IB experienced educators.
While others might disagree -- I truly believe this is a fallacious comparison and we need to separate the two issues and not lump them together as the same "choice".