Yeah, Changchun, I don't think I'd go there myself.

Then again, I wouldn't go advising Chinese people to come to the US and move to Detroit either.

I know two folks who work(ed) at another international school in J-burg. They've both said it is a hard place to connect and make friends with locals. I get the sense it is a rather insular place if you're not from there. One has since moved on while I think the other still lives there.

Dredge,

I'm sure everyone has a different reason for going to China, but I'd lay out the reasons I see commonly. I would also say that even people who enjoy living in China, can have a love/hate relationship with the place. Some days I was thrilled to be there, and other days I was ready to punch in the face the next person who was trying to push their way onto an elevator as everyone was exiting it on the ground floor.

First, there are a heck of a lot of jobs in China these days. The combination of foreign companies setting up shop and having employees based out of China, and Chinese people having the money to pay for Western curriculum at private and public Chinese-run schools has meant there are lots of schools looking for foreign teachers. Within that is a huge range of quality obviously, and I would say in general, the foreign run schools are better places to work though there are plenty of exceptions. It's also a very big country, and by living in different areas of the country you can experience a very different lifestyle.

Secondly, for all the problems the country has as they develop, it is a fascinating place to be. I think there are few examples in history of countries where life is changing so rapidly. Peter Hessler, probably the best foreign writer about life in China, has some very insightful things to say about it. I lived in Shanghai for 3 years about 10 years ago, and I was literally seeing the place change before my eyes. I headed back for brief trips after a couple years, and the places I knew had radically changed. I'm going back next year, and I don't expect it to be the same country. If you're into novelty, China is a great place to be.

Third, for as awful as Chinese people can be in public and in their interactions with strangers, I have had wonderful friendships with Chinese people who I have gotten to know well. Chinese people can be extremely gracious, and they respond very well when you show an interest in their country and their culture. They are the most encouraging of people as you butcher their language, "Oh, your Chinese is very good." Compare this with Japan, where I've heard from friends who have lived there that the general attitude of Japanese is, "if you can't speak our language correctly, then don't speak it at all." Again, these relationships take a bit of effort because foreigners' lifestyle and Chinese people's lifestyle can be radically different, but I've found the relationships to be rewarding. I had a much easier time engaging with people since I learned to speak Chinese reasonably well. I can count on one hand the time I was treated poorly or someone was rude because I was a foreigner, though I can't count the times I was charged more for being a foreigner. The foreigner tax thing gets annoying, and I did better as my Chinese improved.

Fourth, though inflation has eaten away at it somewhat, the savings potential and quality of life one can live in China being a teacher at an international school is still great. Just one aspect of this is the ability to hire inexpensive nanny/maid/cook, generally referred to as ayi's. You want inexpensive child care with people who love kids. Check! You want home cooked meals prepared for you. Check! You want someone to do your laundry and iron everything. Check!

Fifth, with the exception of traffic accidents, I still think of China as a very safe place to be. My friends and I would think nothing of walking through any part of the city at any time of the day or night. Theft can be a problem, but robbery of foreigners is exceedingly rare. In general violence directed at foreigners is rare, though there are exceptions. Usually it involved a male foreigner being an absolute jackass, and the kind of thing that would be a problem anywhere. Being an Asian foreigner or a black foreigner can mean very different treatment by Chinese people.

Sixth, inexpensive massage is amazing.

Dredge, China is certainly not a place for everybody. The pollution can really get to people, the crowds you have to deal with everywhere can wear you down, the uncertainty brought about by the change that is always going on can be frustrating, the difficulty with language issues for people who don't speak Chinese, and the dangers with contaminated food is worrisome (this is probably the scariest for both Chinese and foreigners).

To be honest, a number of these issues arise in other counties in Asia to greater or lesser degrees. Some of the upsides are to be found in these other countries too.

It's good to hear of Dorje Gurung's release. It's probably a good thing that he has the contacts he's made over the years at St. Xavier's, Grinnell, UWC, etc. I wonder if it would have played out different if he didn't have those contacts.

@overseasvet2,

I'm sure we'll see something about this on the pay side of the site, if not here sometime after the end of school. There had been some information about it from someone familiar with the situation, but it has since been deleted.

@mamanaia,

One of the board members for Qatar Academy seems to work at Texas A&M in Qatar, and another board member works for Georgetown University School of Foreign Service in Qatar. That can be found here; http://www.qataracademy.edu.qa/about-qa ... -governors

Granted, these are tenuous connections to the main campuses, but it is one of the ethical issues associated with US (and other countries') universities setting up shop in countries with very different cultural norms and values. Professors at Yale were concerned about the venture with NUS in Singapore because of issues of academic freedom, but issues like these even tangentially associated with their university brand make university administrators sweat back in the US.

This one? http://www.gsineducation.com/requisition/0000000004.req

Well they teach archery and riding so it cannot be all that bad, can it?

It looks like a new Chinese private school. I'd expect standard Chinese operating principles to guide the place. You probably want to ask yourself if you're okay with that.

You might want to see what Confucius said about paying teachers on time. I do know he was big on people obeying authorities.

This is an international school that isn't really an international school. It's a private Turkish school that takes elite national students. They operate on a hybrid Turkish/international curriculum. I've heard they have excellent students. Some are on scholarship, some come from very wealthy families.

Just be aware that working at a private national school feels a lot different than working at an international school. People don't stay too long in most of these Turkish schools (Kroc School, ACI) unless they either fall in love with Turkey or have a connection with the country. A lot of the faculty are locals.

Again, this is an outsiders perspective based on having friends who have worked in the country. I would say it is highly regarded by US colleges and universities.

I had a friend who left there last year. Basically I heard the same thing as Indogal. My friend said working at the school was great and the kids were great. Money was great. Professional development opportunities were good.

Lack of social opportunities (dating) and traffic were the real killers.

I've heard pretty good things about having dogs as pets in Korea (not joke) though I don't know if that extends to big dogs. Interesting enough, I hear Koreans don't like cats. Though I don't know about the availability of dog parks in Korea.

Unfortunately, what you describe is fairly typical of the Chinese run schools, and you're right that there is little that can be done other than not working at those type of schools.

Given where you are in China now, I would say that Xi'an would be worse at least in so far as there being much of an expat community available. It will certainly be livelier and dirtier than where you are now. At least now you have access to Guangzhou, Shenzen, and Hong Kong (though I wonder if you have a multiple entry Z visa). I doubt Bodi would be all that different in terms of how it's run.

Honestly, I don't think it matters much who the foreigner is that the private Chinese high school puts in charge to deal with foreigners. He won't have much say in how things are run, and he's probably mostly there to deal with the laowai teachers. I'd take a look at the norms for Chinese run schools and try to decide if you're okay with them in general.

Chinese schools (as opposed to international school in China which are completely different) are run in a very hierarchical way. So if you're okay with going with the flow and being in harmony with the administration, then you'll be fine. I would say you shouldn't expect that the promises made will be honored. What exactly will change is hard to say. In China, contracts are often a starting point for continued discussions. Both from personal experience and from those I know who've worked in Chinese run schools, don't expect decisions to be made well in advance, and schedules often change at the last minute. Whether you would be happy depends on what you mean by stable.

I think Xi'an could be a fascinating place to be as a foreigner if you have decent Chinese language skills and an interest in engaging with the local culture. But it would be low on my list of places that are easy for people who to have access to an expat community.

Good luck.

Goodl luck with your plans.

A few last things, I would recommend a CACREP accredited school counseling program if you can choose between different CO schools. They give you more flexibility when it comes to credentials in different US states, and you may find Colorado isn't the best place to have your credential when you go overseas.

You might be okay with the residency, especially if you lived there just prior to leaving the US.

One problem my counseling program had was limited space for the 100 hour practicum. Counseling students sometimes had to wait an extra semester or two to start it, which was a real problem for the full time students. I don't know that this is a common problem with other programs, but it may be. I was only doing the program part, so it didn't cause me any trouble.

@andybaxley86

Based on some of your previous postings it looks like you would need to go and complete a MA in school counseling. There are some school counseling programs where you could do coursework online, but even those tend to have intensive onsite programs during the summer. There was one out of Colorado, and I had one former colleague who did a program in Massachusetts where she went two summers in a row (my understanding was she was doing online coursework during the school year).

To complete school counseling programs they usually have a 100 hour practicum (sometimes in school settings, though it can be in other counseling settings) requirement and a 500 hour internship requirement. The second requirement (500 hour internship) often means people have to spend a semester or more often a year doing an unpaid internships in schools. Sometimes you have to do half at one level (elementary) and half at another (high school), though that seems to be dictated by the state. I know people who were able to meet their hour requirements while teaching in a school, but usually this happens when there are unusually flexible administrators.

After going through one of these programs, you'll almost certainly want/need a school counseling credential from somewhere. In the US, each state has different requirements. Be aware that some US states still require a person to have a teaching credential and sometimes teaching experience to become a credentialed school counselor. In the past, this was a requirement in just about every US state, but now I think only 8 - 12 states have this requirement. Typically it's a 2 year program if you're doing it full-time.

So, school counselors are in high demand at international schools, but it's a pain to go through the training. I would agree with SighGuy that the bigger demand seems to be at the high school level where school counselors would be a bit more focused on college advising. However, there were still a lot of elementary and middle school counselor positions posted this year. There are small schools where 1 counselor works will all grade levels. The elementary school counseling positions are a bit more focused on collaboration with teacher, presenting large guidance sessions, and more individual counseling of students on behavioral issues related to school. It is still not heavy on the mental health aspect. Also, I didn't see any positions this year that specifically mentioned school counselors having teaching duties. I'm sure it happens at some schools. Certainly testing coordination for the PSAT, SAT is not uncommon.

I hope that gives you some idea of what pursuing that route to working in international schools would entail.

krdking,

I don't think the IB experience piece is as crucial for a counselor as it would be for a teacher. I'm sure there are some top tier schools that want it even for counselors, but really as long as you understand the IB system enough to advise students for their sign up process then I think you would be fine.

I have been hired as a high school counselor by a tier 2 school with a full IB curriculum PYP/MYP/DP. I've also been working as a college counselor, though like you, I completed a MA in school counseling and I hold a credential. I am currently working at an AP school, though I was familiar with IB from my days in college admission.

I image what you've been learning about IB for your incoming class this year will be sufficient (I'm assuming there has been some training, but maybe not with a Chinese run school). I wouldn't suffer through a 3rd year at a Chinese run school. Licensed school counselors with college counseling experience are in demand. You should be able to be hired early in the hiring process (October - December) next year if you are prepared. Hopefully you attended EARCOS and started networking already, but I would register and attend the OACAC conference, which is in Poughkeepsie, NY the second week of July. OACAC is a good place to learn more about IB curriculum. IBO has sent representatives in the past to the conference.

There is also an OACAC group on FB that you might want to join. They posted a number of school counseling jobs there this year.

Good luck.

Well the international organization that takes care of this has a website, but it appears to be down.

Standard Tiers of Unifying Principles for International Definition’s website with the master list of all the different schools’ current tier status has all this information. You should check back by doing a Google search every so often until the website re-appears.

So Chengdu is just like other Chinese cities in terms of dirt and pollution.

The Chinese like to say that Chengdu's dogs bark at the sun when they see it because they see it so infrequently. It does sound like sunshine is at a premium.

I've been to Chengdu and Sichuan province before, but it's been so long it is probably radically different now. I did think it was an interesting city, though at the time the expat community lagged behind in size with what was found in the eastern Chinese cities.