goblinhunter wrote:
> Recently a friend informed me about a wonderful school in Japan with a MyP
> coordinator role.
> However - the school only recruits through Search Associates.
>
> I then chose to register. To my shock, I was rejected, despite having post
> graduate courses from Harvard, the full package from the UK
> (NPQs/Masters/PGCE QTS), no kids and professional qualifications that even
> headteachers lack.
>
> I asked for more details and they refused - only telling me that it is
> unlikely I will get a job. I have international experience and
> qualifications. My references are fine since I also have other job offers
> from other institutions but would like a change from my region. A quick
> Google Search shows a few messages from Whistleblowers who talk about
> racist gate keeping, but I don’t want to give up hope just yet. I am aware
> that some schools want a ‘face’ that sells what people think of when they
> think of the UK but it is a little frustrating.
> Is it worth applying to these schools informally through contact forms and
> LinkedIn, rather than using Search?

Let your Search Associate know. They have a policy that schools cannot discriminate based on race.

It will be hard to prove it but they will take down or edit job postings that show discrimination.

Asteger wrote:
> That list of nationalities you provide sounds perfectly 'normal' in China.
> I don't meant to say that each province or municipality in China has the
> same list, but the various jurisdictions in China do form restrictions like
> this and that is that. Those are the local rules, until they change and
> make them more restrictive. Schools need to follow them.
>
> Shenzhen is a place, I think, where there used to be a diversity of
> teachers, and now a much more limited list of 'nationalities' than is. I
> recall teachers of non-'typical' nationalities not having renewals and
> having to re-locate. Overall, the schools seem to have suffered more from
> the imposition of restrictive policies which, obviously, are not
> international education-friendly.
>
> As for AISG, they are probably just sharing the conditions they work under.
> No offence, perhaps, on the part of the school.
>
> On the other hand, I am a bit concerned. I don't have a big evidence-base,
> but I'm wondering about AISG.
>
> Nationality is one aspect of inclusion/exclusion, and there are many
> others. Willingness to consider teachers with dependents is another. Can
> a school be inclusive if it seeks to only hire single teachers with no
> dependents? What about the 'family community' they advertise, too?
>
> I had a first interview with AISG a few years ago, and was invited for a
> second, which was then cancelled. So sorry! I was told. Things have
> changed, and we can only now accept candidates with X number of dependents,
> not more than X. (I had X + 1 and so just exceeded this new, magical
> limit.) At the time this was blamed on Covid and (presumably) precarious
> finances (which at AISG has to be false - they were not hurtin').
> Recently, a much more experienced candidate than me applied to AISG. A
> very chummy 1-hour initial interview occurred - with good vibes all round
> like I had experienced before - and then this teacher was told of the same
> thing, that there had been this sudden change and that, sorry, the school
> could now no longer consider applicants with dependent numbers 1 above what
> that candidate had (which was incidentally 1 more than I had had a few
> years ago).
>
> Was so disappointed hearing this from an obviously very well-qualified
> candidate applying to a non-profit, US gov-funded, nominally inclusive
> school. I had to wonder if they have some sort of 'which excuse to offer'
> strategy in their recruitment playbook. Was shocking to hear the exact
> same justification a few years later. We both wondered, if this was the
> real 'policy' then why did they speak with both of use so long and nicely
> in the first interview anyway? (... and then in my case schedule a
> second?)

I think the problem in organizations is communication. You assume they have great internal communication.

Recently we were told by our HoS that we have to be conscious of dependents because of the decreasing enrollment, our budget is very close to exceeding what we should spend on salaries and benefits. People don't realize the additional cost of a dependent.

Sometimes a principal will want you and HR or the HoS will say no because of the budget.

Bob, I read your other thread and I thought I would chime in:

I taught ESL for about 10 years before going and getting an education degree and certification. I can teach social studies and English. I personally think that I am better at teaching social studies, however, the job market for that is VERY competitive. Be prepared to start off not at a top school like you mention, but a smaller school getting experience. I couldn't score a job teaching social studies after I got my certification because I had zero experience. I did have experience teaching English when I was doing ESL, and was easily able to get a job teaching English.

I would also say that you should sort of decide what you want to teach before going into your first appointment: middle school social studies, or high school and specialize specifically aiming at APs.

There is nothing wrong with working at a smaller, less 'elite' school for a while. I initially only planned to do it for a year, but my school is awesome, and I get to teach things bigger schools would probably never have allowed. (Combination of English and social studies in my 2nd contract)

Good luck.

The students are overall better behaved than North American kinder students are. My daughter did JK in Korea and I was impressed with how well the students behaved. This is in contrast to SK in Canada at a public school, where some kids weren't so well behaved.

Something else you should know, the kids will probably have already gone to hawgwons and most likely know how to read and write Korean, and probably English by JK.

[quote="ichiro"]Just to keep this thread going...how many of us have been in the position of having to work with the not-so-qualified spouse of an "in demand" teacher. Maybe it's the wife of the new IB physics teacher who finds herself stuck teaching a grade or subject she can talk the talk about (interview) but walking the walk...not so much. I worked for two years with a guy whose wife was highly sought after as the HS principal, and she did a great job. He, on the other hand, found himself teaching 6th grade humanities!! He'd never done so before, didn't particularly enjoy reading, and certainly hated grading all those essays. A nice guy who kept his spirits up with a genuinely friendly personality...but even he admitted he'd never have gotten the job if it weren't for his wife.

I'll reiterate: the good schools seek the best. Others...well, you get what you (don't) pay for.[/quote]

I won't go into specifics as some people from my current school might read these forums.

We have a couple teaching couples and I think in some cases the best teachers were not picked for the job.

I have seen what happens first hand when you don't have the best teachers for the job and there is competition with more than one international school in an area: parents will move their kid to the school that has the overall best teachers.

I have nothing against teaching couples, but I would hate to think I got denied a job and one of the two wasn't a decent teacher.

Perhaps if you gave a hint of the country in question that could help as well.

If your husband was being sent to Asia for example, quite a few schools don't have a local vs overseas package.

I don't think your lack of experience though is something that can hurt. At my current school in China we've had wives of expats work there. I won't speak for the quality of their teaching, but they were able to get jobs as holes needed to be filled and it was cheaper for the school.

[quote="shansar"]I can and do sympathize with some of you single teachers with dependents. I am sure it would be upsetting if you really felt the only reason you didn't get offered the job was because you weren't married to another teacher. At the same time did it ever occur to any of you that maybe you just didn't get offered the job because they felt you weren't the person for the job? Also feel like I need to point out that not all teaching couples have a weak teacher as part of the pair. I know hard to imagine but they are out there!
:wink:[/quote]

I emailed a school this week and I was told flat out they only want married couples where BOTH work at the school. Needless to say that was crossed off my list, as my wife isn't a teacher.

calciodirigore: I agree with you 100%.

The thing I find funny about the teaching couples at my current school is often one of them is a lot better as a teacher than the other. So the one who is weaker ends up short changing the school.

I can see value in having teaching couples, but if one of them isn't meant to be a teacher, what are schools doing putting such an emphasis on this?

My wife is not a teacher and I really hope it doesn't become an issue of not getting a job because I am not a couple.

To the OP: you are onto a good thing. I'm sure somewhere, someone has thought up the exact same thing as you!

[quote="mrwright"]Hi Molson. Thanks for your input. Currently we have no children, but plan on having only one sometime soon. So it will just my wife and I and one kid. Still, if you save 50% of your salary, and your paid less than many other schools, it seems it can be done. We can live on a budget. What countries other than China do you think would work? I am working on the masters now, and might have it by the time I move overseas. Like I said, its not that I need savings per se, but that I have loan payments around $600 a month. How realistic is it to live on an international school teacher salary and carry these responsiblilities? What about Thailand, India, Indonesia or Nepal? South America? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?[/quote]

I could be wrong, but generally the poorer the country, the less money you can hope to earn for a yearly salary. I heard the top school in Bangkok pays pretty good, but I doubt if you could get in there with just an MA and no prior experience in international schools.

The problem a lot of schools have is they want you to have prior teaching experience before they will offer you a job. So I'd say for the first two years, take what you can get if the offer is good.

Did you pay for the review part of this site? That information is GOLD. Check out the blog which lists some of the better paying jobs. That is totally worth a look.

Also, I joined searchassociates in my job search. Their database lists what schools generally pay, and it is a good guide to go with the reviews on this site.

You will find this site unfortunately doesn't get a lot of traffic. I really wish it did :( I would love to talk about specific schools and get timely feedback.

Greetings,

My wife doesn't work and I have a school aged daughter which attends my school.

My tuition is waved, but I still had to pay for uniforms, activity fees, and misc. fees. (Nothing compared to what tuition is...)

I am finding it quite difficult to maintain the lifestyle that we had before I went into international teaching.

With 2 kids and your non-working wife there aren't a lot of countries where you are going to make enough to have a savings.

My suggestion would be to look at schools in China. From what I can tell, mine pays about $10000 a year less than most do. That is $10000 that would make a HUGE difference in our lifestyle or savings.

You can do it in less expensive countries that have good after tax packages.

Do you have an MA/M.Ed? That would put you higher up the pay scale and make it more doable.

The biggest problem I foresee is if you don't get into a good school early, they will see your 2 kids as a big liability. Many schools allow 2 kids, but from what I've seen, they really don't want to unless you have something unique to offer the school.

EDIT: Just wanted to say I save 50% of my salary a month. We live very frugally though. Only eat out once a week and I never go anywhere or do anything.

[quote="Candycane"]I went to the Search Bagkok fair and I was not at all enthusiastic about it. In fact, I was prepared to leave without a job. (especially considering I'm single).

Boy, was I disillusioned! I arrived and had more than 15 requests for interviews. I didn't have to wait in any lines for interviews. I had requests from a few top schools (Taipei Am School, IS Manila, Yokohama, Bombay, Bangkok Patana, and more!). I had 2 job offers and accepted one of them. A very competitive fair, but definitely worth sweating out the competition!

I'm a sp ed teacher and had many schools interested in me. I think this fair is more challenging for elementary teachers or other teachers in positions easily filled with couples.[/quote]

Just read the same thing you posted on the fair blogs.

I am married with a dependent, and thus have wondered about the value of going there. I probably will next year. I realize that it is competitive, but I know the schools I want to work at next year so I will most likely connect with the admin of those schools early in the fall.

I taught in Asia for many years before getting certified to teach in accredited schools. For that first run, I just went with the first place that would give me a chance. That taught me a bit about Asia and dealing with a vastly different culture.

After getting certified, I didn't want to return to Asia right away, but Europe seems way too much money. If I wanted a socialist high tax lifestyle, I would have just stayed in Canada.

Thus I looked back to Asia and here are some of the things I was looking for:

- a school that was accredited and paid about what I might make as a starting teaching in Canada or a bit more.

That was it. With cash reserves running out and no international school experience, I felt any place that fit my criteria would be gold.

My reasoning was, if the workload was high, or the atmosphere was bad, I could put up with it for 2yrs and move on.

I actually landed a job at a great school.

Make a list of what you desire and go for it. Don't expect to get all of the items on your wish list first time around. Many of the better schools won't touch someone who has no prior international school experience.

[quote="westcoaster"]Hi Molson- Good to hear that you were able to get an international job after finishing your B.Ed and that your prior EFL experience was an asset. My husband is Canadian and has plenty of EFL experience.

I was going to ask when I should be applying for jobs but you answered my question.

The hippo- Thanks for your reply. It is good to hear that your friend got lots of job offers mid school year.[/quote]

You should be applying for jobs now, as in in January/February. Lots of jobs have been posted in the past month. I have also seen that many jobs have already been posted as filled. I know at my school my headmaster is looking to fill all our openings before the Chinese New Year break.

If you husband can work ESL jobs though I would suggest South Korea, Japan and Taiwan with Beijing/Shanghai as a last resort.

Hiya,

I worked in Korea for 10 years before going back to Canada and getting a B.Ed. Six of those years were in a private elite high school teaching non-ESL subjects like composition and critical reading.

I was able to get a job at an international school due to this past experience. I teach English in China and my past experience with ESL and Koreans was a big factor in the headmaster giving me an interview.

What nationality is your husband? There are ESL jobs in places like Korea, China and Japan, but they are for native speakers.

I have a daughter and she gets free tuition. As long as you only have the one kid you should be fine.

My advice is to apply in advance. I lucked into a last minute spot. I had a few last minute people applying to me (teachers who signed contracts or letters of intent do drop out last minute in June or July due various reasons - the guy I replaced told my school his kid had cancer so he was staying put) and some of the locations were less than desirable at places with some bad reviews on this site. Luckily the school I am at now is half decent.

[quote="admin"]Your input and efforts are well appreciated. Thanks very much. It would be simple to add the categories and I will bring this up at Monday's meeting.

Best,

Forum Admin[/quote]

I also agree with the suggested changes. More people might post here if it were better organized. I would really love it if people would feel more welcome to come here and share information, and seek information.