After teaching at a private school briefly in Thailand, I'm considering teaching at a private school or 3rd-tier IS in China since I don't have a license or experience. I heard students in China are much better behaved than in Thailand as students can actually fail unlike in Thailand, they take education alot more seriously, and actually respect foreign teachers instead of seeing them as clowns

I taught math to high school students in Thailand. The issues I had with the Thai students is that they would just constantly talk to each other during my lecture. I guess when they were confused, as instead of asking me to clarify, they would just ask each other in Thai. The Thai admin told me the students talking in class wasn't a problem and they didn't like me having the students work on math problems in class quietly on their own. The students even complained about me to admin numerous times as they thought the classes were too boring and not fun enough.

Does this sound like a problem with just Thai kids or should I expect the same problems with Chinese students?

Thames Pirate wrote:
> Great! Welcome to the profession! You can often work your way up reasonably quickly
> if you are smart about it and good at it. And yes, not having a license hurts, but
> as you say, you are working on that. Long term you should be fine!

What do you mean by reasonably quickly if I'm smart and good at it? As in, I can get a math or physics teaching role at a mid-tier after just 1 yr. experience and teaching license. How do you become good and smart at it?

> Depending on the country and how long you are in it, you
> can either collect it upon retirement or cash it out and then invest it yourself. So
> you could end up cobbling together pensions from your home country (if you worked
> there first), three other countries, and private investments.

I was planning to spend my first year in China. Then, if I don't like China, I could move to another country elsewhere in Asia or South America

> What is enough for you to retire? What lifestyle do you want?

I don't need a very extravagant lifestyle. On the other hand, I don't want to have to keep staying frugal like a college student for too long. But it would be nice to eat out at nice restaurants at least a few times per week, travel every holiday, have no money worries, and even get my own maid. I don't need to . alot or buy super fancy electronics or furniture. I heard this lifestyle is possible on a salary at a mid-tier in China

Thames Pirate wrote:
> If you are looking at teaching because it appeals
> to you for its own sake, do it. Then make good decisions about contracts
> you take and how you invest that money.

Sure, teaching appeals to me. I'll have to start out at a 3rd tier since I don't currently have a license, but I hope to work at a mid-tier once I get a license and experience

So how do international school teachers invest that money? How does it compare to the 401k, social security, etc that they would receive if they stayed in the US?

Thames Pirate wrote:
> if you don't but you are tie dot a US account, your risk of being found out on that is very very low.

What's "tie dot"?

snowphantom wrote:
> Most (top) international schools do offer retirement plans where they generally match between 5-17% of employee contribution.

What about mid tiers? Do some of them offer retirement plans? Or is it only 1st tiers and elite tiers?

snowphantom wrote:
> This generally isn't enough to fully retire on so we usually save and invest one full salary each year (we are an experienced teaching couple with kids) in addition to this in vanguard index fund ETFs and should comfortably retire by the time I am 55 with a nest egg of 1.5 million to 2.5 million depending on rate of return and continued savings. .. So yes, international teaching can be worth it from a financial perspective. We find the advantage of a relatively low cost of living combined with the fact that schools generally pay for housing to allow for a high savings rate.

That's what I was looking for. That's great to hear.

wrldtrvlr123 wrote:
>money/retirement quality of life is of primary importance to you, then you should not go into teaching .. Do you actually enjoy being a teacher? As for retirement, most teachers seem to teach until they reach the usual retirement age (60's) and end up doing a combination of private arrangements, school sponsored (if they are in a really good system) and SS.

I've only taught university students before. I enjoyed it and want to live abroad, so that's why international school teaching appealed to me. I was just concerned the salaries and benefits would be too low to retire.

What do you mean by private arrangements, school sponsored?

I'm considering teaching abroad. However, I'd be forgoing a career in software development in the US where the salaries (but also cost of living) are much higher and we get retirement plans such as 401Ks/social security. From what I've gathered, international schools don't offer retirements plans and international school teaching is not a lucrative career: https://andrewhallam.com/2012/05/why-in ... ative-gig/

So do you still think international school teaching is worth it? And that it's not an issue to save enough money for retirement? What age range do international school teachers usually retire at?

I also read from Andrew Hallam's advice to invest in index funds from Vanguard. However, is it true that Vanguard does not allow US expat teachers to have an account with them? What if I already have an existing Vanguard account, but I'm currently in the US but could move overseas to teach very soon?

What about if I teach math or physics elsewhere to get 1 year experience and a license through Teach Ready, and then try to apply for positions in Mexico or Colombia? Would I then have a shot at mid-tiers, or at least a salary much higher than USD$15K-USD$20K living with housemates?

Thanks for the reply

PsyGuy wrote:
> 2) Outside of a handful of 1st tier/elite tier ISs salaries can be very low in the
> LCSA as low as USD$15K/year with shared housing as part of the OSH. In general as
> long as your living on the economy and in the economy at mid tier (floater third
> tier and 2nd) tier ISs you can ave a bout a third of your coin if you are really
> fiscally disciplined. The issue is that at the salary levels on average for the
> region (which are well below the IE average of USD$30K/year) its not a lot of coin
> in the bank. As soon as you leave the region what you have doesnt go very far whether
> its on holiday, retirement or moving on. .. You are looking at mostly third tier ISs with your resume.

So what is the typical salary range for a math/physics/chemistry teacher at third-tier ISs in Mexico?

> Housing is a common benefit. At lower tier ISs single ITs must accept shared housing
> (you have room mates), and there isnt an option for an allowance.

I don't want roommates. What are the typical housing costs if I want to have my own place?

I have a master's in STEM in the US and I'm considering teaching in Mexico or Colombia. I can teach math or science. I have some questions

1. Would it be easier to get hired in Mexico or Colombia for someone like me who lacks teaching experience or a teaching license? Is math or science teaching in more demand in one country vs the other?
2. What would the typical teacher save in each country? That is, what is the salary vs cost of living in the countries?
3. What benefits do teachers get in these countries in terms of housing, paid vacation, etc?

senator wrote:
> @ OZGRAD:
>
> I was in the tribe of people who went into teaching because I love to teach
> and think it a a much more noble profession than most others. I passed up
> jobs as actuaries and in applied mathematics and statistics (and the money
> that came with them) because I wanted to teach - not because I backed into
> it.

I come from a similar background. I have an MS in STEM and can find a job in math/stats and get paid well, but I'm considering teaching because it seems more rewarding as opposed to working for an evil company/corporation/startup that wants to make profits by selling crap to people

Thanks for the replies. I can ask more questions and detailed comments later as I'm typing this from my phone now

I just wanted to quickly say to psyguy: i think you underestimate how toxic office jobs can be. Many office jobs require you to work in an open space floor or work in a cubicle close by to other potential loud and toxic co-workers. Its often not easy to avoid assholes.

If you think teaching is more toxic than typical office jobs, may I ask why you choose to teach instead off working a typical office job?

@reu

Can you explain in more detail how in teaching it is more personalized and you have to click more with your co-workers than for typical office jobs?

Would you say it's harder to get out of a toxic environment by changing schools compared to changing companies in a office job?

peachestotulips wrote:
> You should really read some of the reviews on the paid portion of the site.

chilagringa wrote:
> If that's how easy you think teaching is you are in for a REAL shock your first day
> in the classroom!

But negativity with co-workers occurs in typical office jobs as well. I was curious to know the negativity in teaching at ISs *compares* to typical office jobs

Reu wrote:
> Teaching requires a lot of emotional strength, and a massive amount of
> self-confidence. You're also not seen doing your job a lot of the time, because
> you're on your own (or with teaching assistants) in class. All of this combined means
> that a senior staff member or department colleague can question your judgement, your
> skills, your teaching methods, your behaviour management, in subtle ways that never
> rise to the point of being put on probation or being giving more training, but that
> do effectively bring you lower and lower over the academic year. I've known teachers
> who ignore the staff-room whenever possible, because the back-stabbing and
> "subtle" negative comments are just too much. I've known schools where
> racist comments are flung behind people's backs just loud enough for the target to
> hear them, but not so loud that senior staff hear them.
>
> Teaching takes a lot out of you, and a truly toxic school environment is the most
> awful thing in the world whilst you're deep in it, even if you keep out of the office
> politics and are a Good Person.

But plenty of office job environments are toxic as well. That's why I was curious to know how the negativity in teaching at ISs *compares* to typical office jobs

How bad is the negativity with co-workers compared to typical office jobs? Wouldn't it be less bad because you get to spend 15-20 hours or so teaching instead of in your cubicle with potentially hellish coworkers?

Thanks for the reply

Regarding PGCEi, I read somewhere that I can use the PGCEi to apply for a DC credential and then use that to apply for QTS. That's pretty simple, right?

I also read getting a PGCEi looks more impressive than Teach Now/Teach Ready to the parents of students of ISs and thus the reputation of the schools

In that case, is it better to just get the PGCEi compared to Teach Now/Ready?

I forgot to mention, actually I have teaching experience, but it was in grad school when I taught classes for 2 years as a TA. Does that count at all?

I just recently learned that with Teach Ready, I actually don't have to be a teacher during the program. Since I've heard alot of bad things about teaching in private high schools or lower-tier international schools, I've been thinking about working a non-teaching job in the US during the 9-month Teach Ready program, and then applying for teaching jobs after I complete the program

If I do this, do you think I will have a shot at mid-tier intl schools? Or do need the credential AND experience first? Does my teaching as a TA in grad school count as experience?

Is it true that mid/upper-tier intl schools don't even count teaching at a private HS or 3rd-tier intl school in China/Thailand anyways?