Thanks a lot Psyguy for your courtesy. I really appreciate your advice.

1) Learning Support: If you want that one to one interaction with students look into LS/SEN/SPED, you will have more time with individual students or small groups and part of providing them adaptations and modifications as part of learning support is discovering and exploring the cause of their need for learning support. LS is a LOT easier to get into, all you would really need to do is take a certification exam and apply for a suitable LS/SEN/SPED credential. Then just spin your ESOL experience as learning support (that had a language acquisition component) and combined with your UG/1st degree in psychology you dont need to do much more.

I feel like this is the best option for me based on everything discussed so far. I already have a year of experience working as a learning support provider at a psychiatric day facility/alternative school for SEN/SPED children/teenagers in the states.

In my last role, although it was ELL, I found myself drawn to help SEN/SPED students and figure out what was wrong with them. The students themselves and other staff noticed and I ended up taking their cases so to speak, and working along with the counselor.

I am licensed to work in Florida so I’ll have a look at some options available for me as far as getting certified. You reckon all I’ll need to do is hunker down, study, and take an exam?

PsyGuy wrote:
> @typ123
>
> 1) DC refers to the District of Columbia. Essentially the regulating
> authority (OSSE) for DC provides a route to a standard (professional level)
> counselor credential that does not specifically require field
> experience/internship hours. You can substitute classroom teaching
> experience (2 years). You dont need a school counselor program, they type
> typically aligned with a state EPP/ITT program for training school
> counselors, you can do any counselor type of program that contains the 7
> required courses.
>
> 2) You can find the link here:
> http://osse.dc.gov/page/school-service- ... tification
> Counseling children and adolescents
> Multicultural counseling
> Counseling students with exceptionalities
> Crisis and trauma counseling and interventions
> Career development and vocational education counseling
> Testing assessments and measurements
> Legal and ethical issues for school counselors
>
> 3) College and career counseling is the most in demand, because its much
> more difficult to qualify in it. Every school counselor program does the
> mental health aspect. As I wrote above there arent really any professional
> credentialing Masters programs in Uni Counseling.

Excellent information. Really appreciate it. Would like to follow up with you if you don't mind.

1) So you're saying that the school counseling program is more aligned with what would be required in international schools, right? As opposed to the school psychology route.

2) Would this transfer over into working in community colleges and perhaps private practice? Or is it strictly recognized for K-12 school systems only?

3) I'm wondering if I apply to work in an admissions department somewhere and do an internship if I can get a work/study deal and save money on getting certified. That would take away the ability to study remotely, but I'd do that if there was a program like that. Are you aware of any?

PsyGuy wrote:
> I am not aware of any IS that would pay for or provide as part of a comp
> package a certification or licensing program to be a counselor. Some will
> pay for a teacher credential as part of a Uni program.
>
> You dont have a strong or heavy enough resume for an IS to consider you as
> a counselor, you could spin your resume but with out firm experience as a
> counselor or a credential or even a Masters, ISs arent going to be too
> excited about your application or candidacy. Your best path aside from a
> traditional one, is to find a lower tier (bottom tier) IS that doesnt have
> a counselor and start off in ESOL, and then as the IS grows and develops be
> ina position to pitch yourself into moving into a new counselor position
> within the IS. There are plenty of counselors (pastoral care, etc) who
> arent credentialed, but they have an 'in'.
>
> In Counseling there are two very distinct pathways. Mental Health (MH) and
> Career/Uni. Credentialing programs int he US and the UK primarily focus on
> the MH aspect, with little if any attention to the career/Uni counseling
> tasking. Some Unis particularly in CA have certificate programs in
> Uni/Career Counseling. Otherwise the only real way to get trained at
> Uni/Career counseling is to work in a Uni admissions or career services
> department. While the vast majority of Unis train in the MH aspect, its a
> very minor role for a school counselor. Mostly the position in an IS is a
> student management one and liaison role between leadership and the students
> and community. You will spend more time in a week attending to morning
> coffee mixers with parents and the PTA then you will managing a case load
> of student cases.
>
> I wouldnt overly focus on @eion_padraig recommendation, you will want to
> focus on the DC credential, which essentially does not require a practicum
> or and field work as you can substitute two years of teaching experience in
> place of field work. The degree can be in school counseling or any
> counseling program that contains graduate coursework in the 7 stipulated
> courses, this makes it a LOT easier to find an online or distance education
> program.

A few questions for you PsyGuy. Hope you don't mind answering.

1) What exactly is the "DC credential"? Could you please elaborate on what DC stands for as well as what this would entail?

2) Also what are the "7 stipulated courses"?

3) Lastly, could you please confirm whether the career counseling path is indeed the most practical for someone that wants to be a counselor in international schools?

Thank you for your responses, everyone. Some really great advice here. Would love to get more input from you guys!

It seems like my credentials aren't relevant enough for getting into decent schools as a counselor, and I am not interested in haphazardly working my way into the role at a bottom tier school. The only reason I asked if my credentials were already good enough to get in was contingent upon the idea that the school would potentially offer support for certification while on the job, hence any school offering that sort of support would presumably be a mid/top-tier school.

I have already spent a lot of money on my education so far and don't have a lot of money saved, and going through a certification program or getting my masters is a possibility if I can find something very affordable or perhaps find my way into a scholarship or work/study role. I'd like to avoid getting another school loan. It seems that a career counseling program would be most suitable for someone that wants to be a high school counselor in international schools based on some of your comments. This is an appealing route to take as it would open doors to working in colleges/universities, or perhaps even do freelance counseling.

To be honest, I'm just burnt out with ESOL and I'd like to take on a role doing something I'm more passionate about. I really love working in international schools and the freedom and flexibility it provides me, and it's rewarding to be a part of a community and make a tangible difference in young lives every day. If I don't go the counseling route, maybe I'd be more inclined to apply for roles as a psychology/TOK teacher. The only problem with this is that I have read that teachers usually don't only teach these subjects, so I'd probably be stuck doing mostly ESOL again.

Thanks for reading. Hope to hear from you guys soon. I really appreciate your guidance.

I was also wondering if it would be worth applying for a counselor position based on my current background or if I would indeed need further qualifications. I imagine there are some ISs that would hire me and provide PD to get fully certified.

Hello everyone,

I was hoping to get some advice on becoming a guidance counselor in an IS. I would prefer getting certified remotely if possible but if I need to be somewhere for practicals then I'm willing to relocate.

My background:

-30 yo American
-Double major in psychology and philosophy
-1 year experience as learning support at US alternative school
-Teaching credential with ESOL specialization
-4 years of ELL specialist experience in ISs K-12
-TEFL certification

In my last role as an ELL specialist I did mostly 1-1 and found that I really enjoyed the dynamic, which in some ways was similar to a counseling role. As far as I am aware I would need to take more classes/enroll in a counseling program and then take exam for that state.

I would really appreciate some advice from those with experience/knowledge about these positions and how to go about getting one in the most affordable way.

Thanks for reading.

buffalofan wrote:
> The better schools will require all their teachers to be qualified,
> including ESL.
>
> There are international schools in Thailand that will hire unqualified
> teachers for ESL (and even core subjects), but these schools tend to be run
> Thai-style, which means you should avoid like plague.
>
> I'm not that familiar with the 2 schools mentioned, but I do know that APIS
> is a boarding school and you would no doubt have lots of boarding duties
> outside school hours.

All international schools should require teachers to be qualified, otherwise it's not an international school. I think some schools are trying to save money by just hiring unqualified TEFLers. APIS and Bromsgrove are both boarding schools. I don't think the extracurricular load is crazy at these schools though. I know at APIS you have a lot of duties if you choose to live on campus with free accommodation, but if you opt out you actually have less responsibility, with most teachers there choosing the latter apparently. At Bromsgrove, teachers are required to do boarding duty once a month, which includes eating dinner and spending time with students till late in the evening around 9:00 p.m. However, it's only once a month.

Monkey wrote:
> I don't have specific information for these schools, but I can speak to
> being an ESOL teacher in an international school. For every school I've
> worked at (3 different regions and varying Tier levels), ESOL teachers are
> held to the same expectations as classroom teachers: teaching
> degree/license and X number of years experience, usually 2+. And with that
> comes also the same benefits as all other overseas hired teachers: salary,
> housing, flights, insurance, etc.
>
> I'm sure there are schools out there that hire ESOL teachers without the
> above qualifications. Even at good schools, I get the feeling sometimes
> that ESOL is viewed as the red-headed stepchild by many admin. However,
> I've never personally worked at a school with different qualifications for
> ESOL and homeroom teachers.

Good to hear from someone with experience. It makes sense that ESOL would be held to the same expectations. I think the issue may be that some schools in Thailand hire TEFL teachers that aren't actually qualified teachers to fill these positions. It's a shame because it discourages the qualified and trained ESOL teachers from applying. I do get the feeling that admin don't seem to consider it as serious as other subjects, and if it's only because they've abused the hiring process by hiring unqualified people, then that's an unfortunate situation. It's certainly not because other subjects are more important or that ESOL teachers don't pull their weight. ESOL is arguably the cornerstone subject in an international school that has mostly a NNS student body.

Does anyone have any information on the pay scales for either of these schools? I'm looking at EAL/ESOL support jobs at both of these schools and I'm trying to weigh my options. I don't know what the salary is like at these schools. I am pretty sure flights and accommodation aren't included for EAL/ESOL staff. Is this standard everywhere or what? Here are the two schools I'm wondering about:

American Pacific International School in Chiang Mai

Bromsgrove International School in Bangkok

I went back to school to get QTS and I'm wondering if I even need to be a qualified teacher to teach EAL/ESOL in an international school. Any advice with regards to EAL/ESOL work in international schools would be extremely appreciated because this is a big decision for me!

Anyone an EAL teacher at an international school in Thailand or elsewhere abroad? I'm curious what it's like compared with an average TEFLer when it comes to pay, benefits, work environment, etc. From what I've read it seems like EAL staff at international schools collaborate with subject teachers, co-planning and co-teaching. I understand that it is more of a support role, so there may be less teaching involved as opposed to a subject teacher. It seems that there are special pay scales at international schools for EAL support, without flights or accommodation in some cases. Why? Do they tend to work less or have less responsibility? There could be some pull-out ESL involved as well. To be honest, I don't really know much about this, but I'm very curious.

Can anyone with experience or knowledge about this sort of gig offer some insight/encouragement?