My wife is considering going back to work and is wondering if teaching in Chinese public schools would be compelling experience. There are schools that teach AP and A levels, so that might be the best? What about just regular schools? She has never taught in the US, but has taught subject courses in a private school. She doesn't think the school where she taught would be legitimate experience, but perhaps a public school would be? Thoughts?

Has anyone completed the teach-now alternative licensure program (www.teach-now.com)?

It kind of seems too good to be true. I'm wondering whether there are any hidden downsides or issues you wish you had known beforehand.

Thanks so much!

Once again, thanks for all the helpful advice.

I'd love to hear from any teachers certified to teach secondary math (or another subject for that matter) who got their undergraduate degree in something totally different. Is this even possible? As psy_guy indicates above, would somebody in that scenario have to go back and take 20-30 credits of math courses before becoming certified? I'm assuming yes?

@basmad6

I couldn't find the UCLA program you referenced. Are you perhaps talking about USC's program?

There's a program I've been looking at for some time at George Mason University. Formerly called FAST TRAIN, they've rebranded it as an MEd in Teaching Culturally, Linguistically Diverse & Exceptional Learners. It's convenient for those abroad because a significant portion is online, with one intensive summer of classes on-site. You choose one area (15 credits) in which to specialize. One of the specializations is IB and it culminates in an Advanced International Baccalaureate Studies Graduate Certificate.

http://gse.gmu.edu/teaching-culturally- ... entration/

However, the IB specialization does NOT lead to licensure. This is unfortunate because from what I understand from information I've read on this forum, licensure is a prerequisite to teaching at any decent IS. The Mason MEd program has other specializations that DO lead to licensure, for example the International Elementary Education (PK-6) specialization. However, not only would I prefer to work in secondary education, but I understand that secondary positions are in higher demand.

Ideally, there would be a program out there that is partially or fully online and results in a Masters and secondary mathematics state licensure. Is this just wishful thinking?

Alternatively, I could complete both:
- GMU MEd in Teaching Culturally, Linguistically Diverse & Exceptional Learners (with specialization in IB, leading to an Advanced International Baccalaureate Studies Graduate Certificate)
- A program like Teach-Now, which can lead to secondary math teaching licensure in D.C

Thoughts?

I'm not saying you can ONLY find a low cost of living outside of the major cities, just that in general costs tend to be lower in a place like Kunming. Those who place high value on things like art galleries, live music, and top museums should probably choose a larger city. However, if you prefer a quieter, more active lifestyle, with plenty of area to stretch your legs and fresh air to breathe, a location like Kunming might be more up your alley.

Thank you both for taking the time to reply so quickly.

Although TFA provides a path towards parallel certification, it requires teaching for an additional year and taking Masters classes at a local university. I opted not to do that, so I think I'm back at square one and would have to complete an entire licensure course. Am I correct in thinking this?

The non-U.S. certification ideas (PGCEi, for example) seem like good alternatives, but I wonder what schools prefer. Can anyone comment on whether I'd be more marketable having completed a traditional licensure program at a university in the U.S.?

Lastly, although I'd love to have the opportunity to take on an administrative role at some point in the future, my passion is teaching and that is where I'd like to start. Besides, it seems odd for an IS using an IB curriculum to hire an administrator without any experience teaching IB.

Psy_guy, just because this process CAN happen in 3-5 minutes doesn't mean that it's commonplace or that it ever happens. I've never seen it happen in less than the normal timeframe (a few weeks). It would probably take a pretty significant favor to make something like that happen, which doesn't make sense for the school unless they're bottom-of-the-barrel-desperate, in which case I can't see them having a particularly large amount of guanxi in the first place. (incidentally, I just found out that "guanxi" autocorrects to "guano" on my computer, which is a wonderfully accurate description of this practice)

Also, just want to clarify something regarding visas/work permits/etc. The school doesn't actually issue you a visa. They provide you with the paperwork (a work permit and an invitation letter) to get a Z-visa (employment visa) on your own at the embassy/consulate in your home country.



PsyGuy wrote:
> In general principal however, if a school can get visas it can get work permits.
> Time is not really an issue, its the same desk that processes work permits that
> processes visas, if an IS can get a visa issued quickly it can get a work permit
> issued just as quickly. The time element is not a function of temporal restrictions
> or limitations but a factor of the "relationship" and the social currency used for
> each transaction, each visit to the PSB for a request is really a "favor" or an
> exchange of social currency to facilitate the request. It costs less if you can
> take care of all those requests at one time, and the optimal time to do all of that
> at once is the start of the academic term when you have all the staff you are going
> to have. Many of the legitimate ISs dont need as much social currency because they
> have status that facilitates the processing of their visa/permit/license applications,
> they might expend some of that social currency to speed up the process, but its
> going to get done.
> After the permit is issued its a few days to DHL/EMS the documents and then a week
> to process the visa at the embassy plus the post time between the embassy (which
> you can do overnight), and is no different a time frame when applying for a tourist
> visa. The only difference becoming the permit processing time and posting time from
> China, which if an IS was motivated to do so could do in a week (2 days for the
> permit and letter, and then 5 days for post). If an IS needs someone that fast a
> local hire is a more viable option.

To be fair, you get compensated less not for "living amongst the people" but for having a lower cost of living. If you've lived in China for a while, you'll know that spitting on the ground is something you'll see in every city, including Shanghai and Beijing. If that bothers anyone that much, China is probably not for you. I've traveled to quite a few cities in China and have found Kunming to be among the most foreign-friendly. As eion_padraig mentioned, wen lin road is a great area, with quite a few coffee shops and restaurants offering good food and drinks.

I actually hated Kunming the first time I visited. I returned a few years later because it's a gateway to a lot of great outdoorsy travel destinations. I did some research, gave it another chance, and was really impressed.

Just wanted to add my two cents. If you're looking to teach in China, Kunming/Yunnan is one of the best places to do it. It's one of the most beautiful areas in China. It's very diverse. The weather is great all year round. There is a comparatively large population of long-term foreigners in Yunnan because the province has a lot that appeals to Westerners.

That said, I've heard that salaries tend to be lower than in the big cities (which isn't necessarily a bad thing because the cost of living is much lower)

I've been in charge of recruiting American teachers for my school for about 5 years now so I'm pretty familiar with the visa application process. In the past (before 2010) teachers could come on a tourist visa and do the Hong Kong visa run without too much trouble. Since 2010, though, there has been a tightening up (as others have mentioned). A school asking you to come on a tourist visa is a MAJOR red flag. You're taking a pretty big chance if you do this. Chances are the school is not legally allowed to hire foreigners. Perhaps the school has various alternative methods for getting visas (a student visa or the sketchy "business" visa, for example). Schools in smaller provinces have a harder time finding foreigners willing to go there, so their local foreign expert bureau tends to be more liberal with issuing work permits. That means that if a school in, say, Shanghai can't legally hire foreigners, they might ask them to come over on a tourist visa, then send them to Hong Kong with paperwork from some random school in, say Gansu province. If it works out, great. If not, the teacher goers back home and it's not skin off their backs. This also gives the school a month to "test out" the foreign teacher. If the authorities find out you're legally employed to work in Gansu province but working in Shanghai, there is a chance you could be deported and will have a tough time getting back to China.

Let's give the school the benefit of the doubt and assume they ARE legally allowed to hire foreigners. Tourist visas are quick and easy to get, but Z-visas take months. Perhaps they have an immediate need and they can't wait for the Z-visa. Then you have to ask yourself why this school has such an immediate need. Good schools will generally not have teachers randomly quitting and they'll understand that with policies changing all the time in China, they should make hires with plenty of time in advance.

Bottom line, the school doesn't have your best interests in mind when they ask you to come on a tourist visa. I've never heard of a reputable school doing it this way. There are plenty of schools who will help you get a Z-visa BEFORE coming to China.

I found this forum about a week ago and have been consuming as much information as I could. I've found it to be incredibly helpful, but I was hoping I could describe my specific situation and get some advice on my best course of action. I’ll try to include any details that may be of importance.

I graduated from a top 50 school in the USA in 2005 with a double major in Finance and International Relations. Through Teach for America, I taught 6th grade math for two years in a public school in North Carolina. I then moved to a pretty large (second-tier?) city in China to teach ESL at a private English school. I had a connection who helped me to secure the job. I found the salary and contract hours to be attractive and I saw it as a great way to get started in China. I originally intended to work for a year or two while I pondered whether I wanted to continue to teach internationally. Well, not only did I end up loving it, but the school gave me significant salary increases each year along with a management position and increased responsibility. I continued to stay, knowing the general feeling people have regarding private language schools, because the school has treated me very well, the benefits have been great, and I’ve been doing great things for the school. For example, we’ve expanded from two to five schools and I’ve been solely responsible for hiring more than 30 teachers from the USA over the last five years. Nearly all of them have finished their contract and worked out well for the school. Those of you who have worked in English training schools know that this is not exactly a small feat.

I'm currently in the middle of my seventh contract. I'm now married (wife is also American and a teacher) and have a 5-month old daughter. Although we're very comfortable and my salary is more than enough to support the family (My wife, who teaches high school economics, has reduced her hours to part-time since our baby was born), we've decided after lengthly discussion that China is probably not the place for us long-term. You all probably know about the increasing pollution and internet problems, and we've never been particularly fond of Chinese food. Additionally, our community is becoming smaller and younger, as the school tends to hire people in their early 20s (we’re both 32). We’re increasingly interested in surrounding ourselves with those who possess similar interests and are at a similar place in life. We want our daughter to have plenty of opportunities to make friends who are not only Chinese. Thus, the International School circuit appeals to us greatly.

So, given those details, what do you guys think is our best course of action? From reading various topics on this forum, it seems obvious that the top schools in the “best” locations prefer people with a lot of experience in ISs. We understand that and accept the fact that our first jobs will likely be in "lower-tiered” schools. We have the ability to adapt to obstacles and less-than-ideal situations (living in China for seven years helps!) so we’re okay with our first location being somewhat unconventional. But obviously we’d like to be in a preferred location and school in the next 4-6 years or so. We hesitate to give up our good current situation for something much worse just to be at an IS.

Also, I’m NOT currently licensed to teach in the USA (it isn’t a requirement with Teach for America). From reading this forum, it seems that certification is a necessity. That’s one of my biggest questions. Should I get my licensure from a state in the USA? Our families are from Virginia, so it would be ideal to get licensed in Virginia in the event we move back there one day. I’ve looked into some Masters programs that also offer licensure. I’m assuming this is the way to go? Any recommendations for what kind of certification to get? It seems that secondary math would be a solid choice. My wife is thinking ESL. What about online programs? Are there any solid and respected choices or are they all considered inferior to brick-and-mortar institutions.

Basically, I’m just looking for some advice on how to start making myself (and my wife) most marketable to International Schools before we apply in a few years.

Thank you so much for reading and for any advice! Dinner on me in the event we’re in the same location one day.