Avoid American International School of HCMC. They are total scoundrels and an example of why teachers should screw schools before schools screw teachers.

Also Vietnam in general seems to be a place where workers are run rough shod over. I don't think contracts mean much there.

On the other, Vietnamese students were probably the best I ever had - smart, hard working, very polite and appreciative. It just amazes me that Vietnamese kids grow up into the type of people Vietnamese adults seem to be: ruthless and money hungry. Also, HCMC was very pleasant to live in. I forget where I was at but they were all Vietnamese and it was vibrant.

I miss HCMC!

I started at 26 as an ESL teacher and I wish I had started at 22 right out of university instead of wasting 4 years teaching in America. Having said that, my first non-esl international school job did require 2 years stateside teaching.

Start as soon as possible. The world is a big place and you only have limited time to see it. As far as retirement, I stopped worrying about that after teaching in Thailand.

I've been finding jobs on my own for years now but I did once get a job through search and did a runner over christmas. Search threw a hissy fit but I think search would probably represent me again. They just want the money. I really don't need them though.

Hi BD,

It is a little tougher without a degree but very possible. Definitely get some type of certificate and you can buy a degree in Thailand, which might work if all you want to teach is ESL. Also, you will need that degree eventually.

I started without a degree - I was 3 semesters short of a BS. After 4 years of teaching ESL though, I knew I wanted to teach at international schools.

I would add to your list Taiwan for substitute teaching. At Taipei Hostel for example, you can hang out in the TV room starting around 2pm and the various busibans will call around for last minute teachers, kind of like day work for esl teachers. This will cover expenses while you look into something permanent.

Good luck and have fun on this road less travelled by.

[quote]3 month severance, I would imagine your school arguing, is your June, July and August pays in a lump sum, plus any gratuity owing...[/quote]

No shadowjack, 3months severance COULD include 1 month notice and 2 months salary on top of every penny they owe, including prorated summer salary. If they pay every dime that's owed, the teacher should get the balance from the parents.

I was in a similar situation in China once, years ago, the head of school terminated my contract without warning and did not want to pay me the 2 month severance that I was entitled to. I said no problem, I'll just call the parents and ask them for the money.

He about went through the roof! Admin were running around like rats on a sinking ship - they didn't know what to do. Ultimately they paid because at the end of the day, no school wants to be put at the center of that kind of controversy, and they know that if you appeal to the parents sense of fairness, many probably will give you some money. After all, the school is just a middleman; its the teachers that provide the service.

So let them know: pay me every penny I'm owed PLUS fair severance or I'll ask the parents for the money.

Well I hate to say I told you so Missy, but I told you so! You've been clearly screwed over by a school and what do these stalwarts of ISR - Walter and Psyguy - have to say: "Tough Luck." Its nice when admin proves my point - Do the school before the school does you!

Your mistake was showing up early. It sounds like you made this mistake out of the best intensions but the long and short of it is, you gave the school both the opportunity to evaluate you AND enough time to find a replacement. I guarantee you, had you only shown up when you were expected to show up, you would have a job for next year.

It's worth repeating: Do them before they do you, because given half a chance and a fraction of a reason, an international school will do you in an instant.

For example, I have signed my usual 3 contract for next year. I'll wait until June to decide which job to show up for and I'll string along the other two schools for as long as possible. This is like insurance. If I don't like the school I decided on, I still have two other schools to fall back on.

Does it sound rough? Unethical? Well I bet Missy wishes that she was in a position of strength right now, instead of having to stress about a job this late in the hiring season and all because some international school screwed her over.

And what comfort can she expect on ISR: Tough luck Miss Missy, tough luck.

Singablesong,
Do whats best for you and screw the school. My advice is accept both offers and just don't show up for one. They'll soon figure it out and find another teacher. And don't worry about your reputation. I've been doing over schools for 30 years now and I have no trouble getting jobs. Its the nature of the game. This school Sid is so worried about will do you over in a second and everybody will just shrug their shoulders and say tough luck.

Do them before they do you!

The cheerleaders are out in force today, a whole squad of tight ***** little cheerleaders cheering on the the useless YCIS admin as they walk the halls with legal pad in hand trying to look busy before they go and hide in their office. God only knows what unspeakable acts they commit in there but whatever they do, it isn't work. Busy work maybe but not real work; probably the most they do is rubber stamp whatever document their Chinese bosses put in front of them.

However, in my opinion, and just so its clear: if you want an easy job with decent pay and benefits and well behaved students in a city where the women are ever sooo easy then YCIS - Shanghai is for you.

Never the less, YCIS admin are useless ******** ***** noses who clearly know where their bread is buttered and lack the ***** to standup to their Chinese bosses. They are figure heads. I'm guessing that as part of the vetting process, any applicant for an admin position at YCIS whose **** is larger than 3 inches does not make it onto the short list.

tdaley26 swoons [quote] In my experience, the leadership of the school has been effective. I especially have been aided by my immediate supervisors in making the transition to my new school. [/quote]

If ever there was a cheerleader leading a cheer, its T. Daley. I'm sure Mr. Daley's immediate supervisor appreciates his comments and no doubt Mr. Daley, with continued public ***kissing, will be admitted wholeheartedly into the YCIS Old Boys Club and with luck may one day himself become a **** **** ******* and ******* useless administrator.

Well done Mr. Daley - outstanding!

Ra! Ra! Shish Coom Ba!
Go Daley!
Go Daley!

I was talking about a moral code but the ISR site administrator edited my comment to incomprehensibility.

Like I said, admin is useless; YCIS admin is just more useless than most.

I'm a teacher whereas they are admin

Lifesucks Said[quote]It could well be that the admin have done their research and concluded that at YCIS they 'could do next to nothing for two years and walk away with savings and a good reference'. [/quote]

That's probably true, which would explain why YCIS admin is so useless and why YCIS is a 3rd Tier school.

Life Sucks then asks[quote]What makes YOU any better than them?[/quote]

I'm better than them on general principle.

I'm guessing English is not your mother tongue? That would definitely put you at a disadvantage in many Asian countries, especially China.

I taught in Kuwait and it would put you at a disadvantage there as well but not as great a disadvantage as in China.

I also taught in Spain and Portugal and in both those countries, they had quite a few non-native English speaking teachers but they were 2nd tier schools.

Trav1 Asked[quote]Higgy, I have a question for you. If you're such a smart teacher how come you ended up at YCIS? Surely you did your research and found out about the organisation before accepting a job there? [/quote]

I did do my research and I concluded that YCIS was such a mismanaged school that I could do next to nothing for two years and walk away with savings and a good reference - and that's exactly what I did. I agree, the YCIS package is pretty good, excellent in fact when you consider how little you have to do. I did practically nothing and admin was as clueless as I had anticipated.

I guess mismanaged schools do have their perks, if you know how to play them and I played YCIS like sucker.

Lets get back to tiers though: I say YCIS is tier 3 and you say its not a tier 1 school. What does that make it? Tier 2?

YCIS is a well resourced 3rd tier school that attracts many well behaved ESL students. With proper admin, YCIS could be much more.